苏州品牌策划公司，未来有潜力的品牌是怎么样的？

随着时代的发展，社会经济发生了翻天覆地的变化，传统企业面临突破创新，线上企业开始着陆线下实体，线下实体开始拥抱互联网，越来越多的人和企业开始将目光集中在企业长远战略上。不过作为现代企业，要想企业良好长久的发展、都需要了解一下未来有潜力的品牌是怎么样？关于这个问题标志共和国官邀请到全球著名的战略咨询公司FutureBrand的全球首席战略官Jon Tipple来告诉你！

访谈嘉宾：
Interview guests:  

本期，我们采访了FutureBrand全球首席战略官Jon Tipple，同时特别感谢FutureBrand中国区总经理Sophie全程翻译。Rologo与FutureBrand全球首席战略官Jon和中国区总经理Sophie共同探讨了关于未来有潜力的品牌是怎么样的。

In this issue, we interviewed Jon Tipple, Global Chief Strategic Officer of FutureBrand, and thanked Sophie, General Manager of FutureBrand China, for her translation. Rologo, together with FutureBrand Global Chief Strategic Officer Jon and Sophie, China's general manager, discussed what potential brands would look like in the future.

Jon Tipple   
Chief Strategy Officer, Worldwide 全球首席战略官  
FutureBrand  

Jon是一个具有国际经验的品牌战略家，曾服务于多个不同类型的创意项目。他大学毕业时加入了奥美的毕业生计划，并与一些世界领先的品牌和企业合作，通过直接营销、广告、创新和品牌体验设计来推动企业的业务增长。

工作经验：在2012年加入未来品牌之前，他曾经任职于Saatchi&Saatchi、FCB、Rainey Kelly Campbell Roalfe(rkcr/y&R)和麦肯。Jon领导了许多区域性和全球性的品牌策略、体验设计和创新项目，覆盖快消品、金融、科技、零售、交通、体育和媒体等行业。

他的品牌经验包括：伦敦奥运会、红牛、微软、雀巢、达能、维珍、 AB InBev, Bacardi和英国广播公司。

Jon在创意行业获得的奖项包括：D&AD Yellow Pencil, EPICA Effectiveness Agency of the Year and Grand Prix, IPA Effectiveness and the APG Grand Prix。

Jon is a brand strategist with international experience across a variety of creative businesses. He joined the Ogilvy & Mather graduate scheme from university and has worked with some of the world’s leading brands and businesses to drive growth through direct marketing, advertising, innovation and brand experience design.

Prior to joining FutureBrand in 2012, his agency experience included Saatchi & Saatchi, FCB, Rainey Kelly Campbell Roalfe (RKCR/Y&R) and McCann. His brand experience includes the London Olympic Games, Red Bull, Microsoft, Nestle, Danone, Virgin, AB InBev, Bacardi and the BBC and his creative industry awards include a D&AD Yellow Pencil, EPICA Effectiveness Agency of the Year and Grand Prix, IPA Effectiveness and the APG Grand Prix.

Jon在FutureBrand负责品牌策略、业务开拓和FutureBrand的全球方法论。他对于为世界上最重要的品牌和企业带来能够帮助他们重新定义行业/类别的创意充满激情。

Jon is responsible for brand strategy, business development and FutureBrand's global methodology at FutureBrand. He is passionate about bringing ideas to the world's most important brands and businesses that can help them redefine their industries/categories.

我们称自己为富有创造力的未来公司，之所以称为有创意的公司是指我们的人才是有创意的。我们会选择在一些人才繁盛的城市去建立自己的分公司，并不是因为要布局全球网络，而是因为那些城市的人更加年轻、更聪明、更加令人兴奋和有趣。

We call ourselves creative future company. And the reason for that is because of our people. We have offices in some of the most exciting cities in the world, because that's where great talent exists, not because we need to have a network,   We have business, we have offices in cities where the talent lives, where young, smart, exciting, interesting people live. And therefore we want to be where they are.

R:你能介绍一下FutureBrand的《2018未来品牌指数报告》吗？

Can you introduce the 2018 Future Index Report ?  

J: FutureBrand全球发布了《2018未来品牌指数》报告，并公布了最具未来发展潜力的世界100强品牌，该报告平均两年发布一次（《2020年未来品牌指数》报告很快将会发布）。此指数对普华永道全球100强 （全球市值最大的100家公司）按照品牌感知力重新排序。我们认为好的业务和品牌是指那些能够将品牌意义和对外传递的品牌体验保持一致并做很好结合的品牌。在这个品牌榜单里面，排名第一的是迪士尼，第二名是茅台，这两个品牌在这方面做得非常成功。像迪士尼不仅拥有很好的品牌意义，还有很好的品牌体验。迪士尼提供的体验完全是基于品牌的目的和意义。茅台也是一样，在全球范围内人们都能够感受到良好的体验与品牌承诺的结合。

J: Futurebrand global has released the 2018 FBI report and the world's top 100 brands with the most potential for future development, which is released once every two years on average(<2020 FBI> report will be released soon). The FutureBrand Index is a global perception study of the PwC Global Top 100 Companies by market capitalization.

We believe that good business and brands mean that brand purpose is consistent with the brand experience of external transmission, and the two can achieve a good combination of brands. In this index report, the first is Disney and the second is Maotai. These two brands have made great success in this respect. For example, Disney not only has a successful brand purpose, but also has a good experience. The experience Disney offers is entirely based on the purpose and meaning of the brand. The same is true for Maotai. People all over the world can feel connection between good experience and brand commitment. The same is true for Maotai. People all over the world.

R：FutureBrand全球办公室协作模式是怎样的？

FutureBrand Global Office Collaboration Model?

J: FutureBrand目前全球的业务重心是三个市场，分别是北美、欧洲和大中华区。我们的工作模式是以客户需求为出发点。例如在中国发起的项目，客户想要一个全球化的团队，或者它有一个全球化的业务愿景，我们就在全球各地抽出最适合客户的人才，去组建一个团队。如果这个项目立足于中国办公室，全球其它国家的人就需要以支持的角色全力配合，而不是说他们从外国总部过来，直接告诉中国办公室你要怎么做。而是反过来我们告诉他怎么做，按我们的要求来支持我们。例如“绿叶”项目是在中国区与客户建立了良好的关系，我们的澳大利亚团队和伦敦团队也加入支持项目。第二个案例就是“米思米”他是一家日本的企业，但我们服务的是中国市场的客户，该项目当时也是由伦敦的设计师，还有另外一个国家设计师参与其中。其次就是香港“亚足联”的项目，也是全球办公室协同办公，其中包括澳大利亚、中国、伦敦在一起去服务客户。

J: Futurebrand's current global focus is on three markets, North America, Europe and greater China. Our working mode is to give customers demand as the starting point. For example, for a project set up in China, if the customer wants a global team, or it has a global business vision, we will select the most suitable talents around the world to form a team. If this project is based on the Chinese office, people from other countries around the world need to fully support us, rather than say that they come from foreign headquarters and directly tell the Chinese office what you need to do. Instead, we will tell him how to do it and support us according to our requirements. For example, the "Luye life sciences" project has established a good relationship with customers in China, and our Australian team and London team have also joined in to support project. The second case is MiSuMI, a Japanese enterprise, but we serve the Chinese market. At that time, the project was also participated by designers from London and another country. The third project is the Hong Kong "AFC" project, which is also a global office collaborative office, including Australia, China and London together to serve customers.

R：FutureBrand在项目执行过程中，品牌策略与品牌设计的前后关系是什么？

What is the relationship between brand strategy and brand design implementation in FutureBrand project implementation?

J：首先要知道的是，没有组织或客户愿意付钱让你凭空想象和打造品牌策略、品牌设计。

所以我们所有的项目通常都是从假设开始的，从答案会在哪里的想法开始。然后，我们随后会试图通过一系列有关组织历史、当前市场、竞争形势的调查来探索这一假设，我们称之为洞察。然后我们再看看品牌所处行业的趋势。这个品类的未来在哪里？相邻品类的未来在哪里？然后，我们将其整合成一个愿景，一个组织中每个人都能从中得到启发的创造性愿景。然后我们根据这一思路构建设计、架构和进入市场的完整解决方案。

总结起来就是假设、调查、推荐、执行，诸如此类的事情。

我们试着找乐子，因为帮助客户看到一个新未来是非常令人兴奋的。如果我们说我们开启了未来，整个体验应该会让人感到非常兴奋、非常吸引人、非常有趣，我们会尽力去享受乐趣。

J:   The first thing to know is that no organization, no clients pays you to turn up. he can't turn up knowing nothing these days.

So all of our projects usually start with the hypothesis. We start with an idea about where we think the answer is going to be. And then, but we then seek to explore the hypothesis through a series of inquiries relating to the history of the organization, the current markets, the competitive situation, we call it insights. And then we look at foresight. Where is the future of the category? Where is the future of adjacent categories? And then we bring that together into a vision, a creative vision that everyone in the organization can be inspired by. And then we build design, architecture and complete go-to-market solutions based on that piece of thinking.

That's hypothesis, inquiry, recommendation, execution, kind of things.

And we try to have fun because it's quite exciting to see a new future to help client. If we say we unlock the future, the whole experience should feel quite exciting and quite engaging and quite fun and we try to have fun.

R：需要具备什么样的条件，才能称为未来具有发展潜力的品牌?

What kind of brands can be called future-proof brands?

J：任何一个品牌，我指的是产品品牌、企业品牌、服务品牌、城市品牌，都可以有一个令人兴奋的未来，我们称那些品牌为“未来品牌”。经得起未来考验的品牌是那些非常专注于将这一目标与其经验联系起来的品牌。比如说，我们很快就会推出，每两年一次的公司未来品牌指数。今年我们将通过国家指数来寻找今年最令人兴奋的国家。像日本、挪威、德国这样的国家，被认为是有着其明确存在意义的国家。当你体验到那个国家的时候，你会感觉到它符合这个目的。你知道，这只是一个例子，很多东西都可以是品牌，但并不是每个品牌都可以成为未来品牌，因为不是每个品牌都将目标和体验联系在一起。所以，我们想说，这样类型的国家品牌、公司品牌、服务品牌，才会有令人兴奋的未来。

J: Any brands, by which I mean product brands, corporate brands, service brand, city destination brands can be described as having an exciting future and being a future brand. The future-proof brands are the ones that are very focused on connecting that purpose with their experiences. So, for example, we are soon to launch, every other year, we do the future brand index of companies. This year we're doing the country index to find the most exciting countries this year. Countries like Japan, Norway, Germany are seen to be countries having very clear focus of why they exist. And when you experience that country, it feels in line with that purpose. You know, it's just an example, lots of things can be brands, but not every brand can be a future brand because not every brand lives as a connection between the purpose and experience. So, we would like to say, the countries, the companies, the services, those types of brands, that are delivering on that have exciting futures.

R：刚刚你一直在强调品牌体验，你能介绍一下品牌体验吗？

Just now you have been emphasizing the brand experience. Can you introduce the brand experience?

J：当然。如果你把品牌理解为它是一种承诺，那么品牌体验就是你创造的一切以及你如何遵守品牌承诺。

这对B2B品牌和B2C品牌来说都是一样的，不管你是哪种品牌，不管你是通过员工，通过合作伙伴，还是通过客户或最终消费者提供体验。这是你给他们的感觉，当他们使用或与品牌进行其他互动时，或者当他们为你工作时，他们是如何看待你的。每一次与品牌的互动就是一切，这就是品牌的生命力。所以当我谈到体验时，我指的是品牌在履行承诺时进行的每一种行为，与人们的每一次互动。如果其中的一些品牌体验没有了，那么受众就会感觉不到这个品牌了。比如，如果我设立了一家令人惊叹的酒店，消费者在酒店的每一次体验都必须能兑现到这一承诺，这是一个例子。

J: Sure. If you think of brand as your promise, then the experiences are what you create and how you keep the brands promise.

And that's true for both B2B brands and B2C brands, it doesn't matter what type of brands you are, whether you are delivering experience through employees or through stakeholder investors or through customers or through end user consumers. It's how you make them feel, what they think about you as a brand when they use or engaged by you, or when they work for you. And it's everything, every interaction with the brand, it’s how the brand comes to life. So when I talk about experience, I mean every behavior, every interaction that people have with the brands when they deliver on the promise of the brands. And if some of those are off, then the brand will feel off. So if I set an amazing hotel, every experience consumer has in the hotel has to deliver on that promise. So it's always about that. But it's an example.

R：在帮客户做体验的时候，会帮客户做整个品牌的监管吗？

When helping customers with their experience, will they help customers with the supervision of the whole brand?

J:FutureBrand可以帮助客户提供和打造品牌体验，但这并不意味着它可以服务于客户体验的方方面面。例如，我们可以做包装、标志、视觉和网站，但我们不做广告。在我们不做的环节，我们会帮助客户做监督和审核，审核他们在这些地方是否兑现了品牌承诺。我们将帮助客户创建一个蓝图和一个大的计划，以帮助它实施品牌体验。

有时候，我们并不是说我们能提供每一种体验。但我们希望能为客户提供蓝图，让他们能够实施计划，并根据品牌计划评估他们创造的体验。我们做服务设计、体验设计、包装设计、环境设计。例如，我们不做广告。在这些情况下，我们希望确保客户所做的与我们定义的品牌宗旨和体验相一致。

J: FutureBrand can help customers deliver and build brands experience, which does not mean that it can serve all aspects of customers' experience. For example, we can do packaging, logo, vision and website, but we don't do advertising. In the link we don't do, we will help customers to do supervision and audit, and audit whether they have delivered their brand commitment in those places. We will help customers create a blueprint and a big plan to help it implement the brand experience.

Sometimes. We don’t mean to say we deliver every experience. But we hope to provide clients with the blue print, the plan that allows them to implement the plan and to evaluate the experiences they create against the brand plan. We do service design, experience design, packaging design, environments design. We don't do, for example, advertising. In those situations we would want to make sure what the client do is aligned with the brand purpose and experiences we defined.

R：你认为中国品牌发展处于那个阶段？

What stage do you think China's brand development is at?

J：在我们的《2018未来品牌报告》中已有有非常强大的中国品牌，比如茅台、中国工商银行、腾讯、中国人寿、平安等，我相信未来会是中美品牌主导、占据前十的时期。目前还不清楚的是，有多少是中国的，多少是美国的，谁将在前十名中名列前茅，谁将排名中后。但中国公司在未来将非常非常强大，我认为他们可以成为一支令人难以置信的力量。中国品牌非常雄心勃勃，对以积极的方式在世界上占有一席之地感到兴奋。在很多方面，我认为中国品牌现在比美国品牌对世界更加开放。这很令人兴奋。

当人们提到它是中国制造或是中国品牌时，对中国的印象不如一些中国的企业品牌。在我们公布的国家品牌排行榜中，中国排名不太好。要改变人们对中国的全球认知还有很多工作要做，这需要一点时间，但这些公司将会扮演着重要的角色。

J: Once again, in our 2018 FutureBrand report, Chinese enterprises have very strong Chinese brands in that report, such as Moutai, industrial and Commercial Bank of China, Tencent, China Life Insurance, Ping An, etc. I believe that the future will be a period when Chinese and American brands will dominate and occupy top 10.   What's not so clear is how many will be Chinese, and how many will be American, and who's gonna be at the top of the top ten, and who's going to be in the middle and the bottom. But Chinese companies are set to be very, very powerful in the future and I think that they can be an incredible force for good. I think that Chinese brands are very ambitious and excited about having a presence in the world in a positive way. And in many ways, I see Chinese brands being more open to the world than American ones right now. And I think that's very exciting.

When people mention that it is made in China or a brand in China, the impression of China is not as good as some Chinese enterprise brands. In our national brand list we released, the China   ranking is not so good.   I think that there is work to be done to change people's global perceptions of China, which will take a little bit longer, but I think the companies can play a big role.

R：对于传统企业应该通过什么样方式去拥抱互联网？

How should traditional enterprises embrace the Internet?

J：我认为到目前为止发生的事情是，传统的公司能够使用数据和自动化，他们能够以一种非常简单的方式使用数据，但实际上他们还无法将其嵌入到业务的核心。这就是机会。我要给你们举一个例子，不是中国的例子，但是有一些传统的欧洲品牌，有些甚至是老公司，比如英国的皇家邮政在拥抱新技术，用新的数字平台拥抱新的受众方面做得非常非常好。我们一直在与皇家邮政合作，帮助他们从一个为中小企业投递邮件、老式信件和纸张的公司转型为一个更好、更智能的业务平台。我认为一些航空公司已经很擅长从传统的公司、传统的企业转变为拥抱技术，使用手机让人们管理他们的旅程，办理登机手续，获取最新信息，我认为这只是技术的智能集成，但我仍然认为我们正处于可能发生的事情的开始。当你来到中国，你会看到微信不仅融入了日常生活，而且融入了我们与企业互动、与公司互动的方式。我想这开始暗示了我们要去哪里。当我来到这里（Jon住的酒店）的时候，这里的一位经理说“如果你需要什么，就联系我”。我想她可能指的是打电话给服务台，但她其实后来加了我的微信，我们用微信联系。我们以前决不会这样做。因此，它展示了微信这样的技术是如何使传统的酒店和传统酒店的传统客人更便利。

J: I think what has happened so far is that traditional companies have been able to use data and automation where they've been able to implement data in a way that's incredibly easy, but they haven't actually been able to embed it in the heart of their business. And that's the opportunity. The example I would point you towards is not a Chinese example, but there's some of the traditional   European brands, some even old companies, like, the Royal Mail in the UK has been very, very good acts in embracing new technology, embracing new audiences with new digital platforms.We've been working with the Royal Mail to move them from being a company that's associated with delivering post, old school letters, paper to an organization that stands for small businesses and medium-sized businesses, and allowing them to use Royal Mail platforms to do better, smarter business and delivery. I think some airlines have been quite good at moving from being traditional companies, traditionalbusinesses to embracing technology and using phones to allow people to manage their journey to check-in, to get updates to, and I think that's just been smart integration of technology, but I still think we're at the very beginning of what can happen. And when you come to this part of the world,you see the Wechat is integrated not just into everyday life, but is integrated into the way we interact with businesses, interact with companies. I think that begins to give a hint of where we're going. When I came here(the hotel Jon stays), over there, this chief manager, when she said “if you need anything, just call me”. I thought she might call the desk, but she means connecting on Wechat, and we would never do that before. So it shows how technology like Wechat is becoming and facilitating traditional businesses like hotels with traditional people like hotel guests.

R：对于同样行业不同国家的项目，在服务过程中有哪些区别：

For projects of the same industry in different countries, what are the differences in the service process:

J：我经常想，有时候差异被夸大了。

如果有明显的差异，虽然是有差异，但其中一个明显的差异是中国的绝对市场规模和中国从过去到未来的变化速度。我认为，在某些情况下，中国的发展速度和规模使它特别具有挑战性。还有高度发达的文化和社会凝聚力的常态：你会怎么说，你的行为方式，你的运作方式，你的说话方式，公司的分层方式。我认为这些差异都是存在的。但在某些方面，它似乎非常保守。我认为，为了给这个地区的公司带来组织变革，你必须特别注意不仅是商业问题或品牌问题，而且你必须真正了解这的人们、风俗习惯和惯例。这是一个特别不同的事情，但所有这些事情都存在于世界各地，这只是一个问题，看到中国不同的地方，并不困难。只是不一样，你必须学会倾听。

我们将很快与中国航空公司合作，我们对航空公司有很多经验。在我看来，航空业面临的挑战是一样的，航空业是全球性的。当你给传统和老牌航空公司带来变革时，你面临的挑战是一样的。在某种程度上，这取决于你所处的行业。但我认为，从根本上讲，会有更多的共同点，而不是差异。

J: I think quite often, sometimes the differences are exaggerated.

What if the obvious differences, though there are differences, and one of the obvious ones is that sheer size of China and the speed with which China is changing from the past to the future. And I think that in some instances, that pace and the size of China makes it especially challenging.There's also a very highly developed culture here and the normality of social cohesion: how would you say, how you behave, how you operate, how you talk, the way companies have layers. I think that exists in the world. But it seems to be really quite conservative here in some ways. And I think in order to bring organizational change to companies in this part of the world, you have to be especially attuned not just to the business problem or the brand problem, but you have to really understand the people, and the customs, and the conventions. It’s one of those things that's especially different, but all of those things exist everywhere in the world and it's just a question of seeing China somewhere different but not difficult. It's just different and you have to learn and listen.

We will soon be working with the Chinese airline and we have a lot of experience with airlines. And it seems to me when it comes to the airline industry, for example, the challenges are the same, the industry is global. The challenges you face when you bring change to traditional and established airlines is the same. It, in some extent, just depends on what industry you're in. But I think fundamentally there will be a lot more commonality than difference.

R：当FutureBrand与客户意见不统一的时候，FutureBrand是如何决策的？

When FutureBrand and customers disagree, how does FutureBrand make decisions?

J：我认为比较严肃回答是，当今世界上最不受重视的价值观之一是妥协的能力。我们总是会先试着理解客户的观点。我们必须在理解他们的想法和感受与我们的经验之间取得平衡，我们认为这是正确的方向，但也要做好妥协的准备。我们所说的是即使当我们有强烈的观点时，我们还是会以比较轻松的态度来处理。

J: I think the serious answer is that one of the most under values in this day and age globally is the ability to compromise. We'll always firstly try and understand the client's perspective. And we have to balance understanding what they believe and what they feel with what we, in our experience, think is the right direction, but also be prepared to compromise. What we say is we have strong opinions, but we hold them lightly.

它是关于冲突，也是关于合作方式的一个问题。它是关于能够互相倾听，可以持有强烈的意见，以找到好的前进道路为初衷持有这些意见。所以，准备好妥协，但也准备好有好的意见。

It's about punching, It's about partnership. And It's about being able to listen to each other and have strong opinion and hold them, hold those opinions in a way that we can find the best way forward. So be ready to compromise, but also be ready to have your good opinions.

R：FutureBrand在招聘新人的时候，一般会考虑性格还是专业度哪方面多一些？

When FutureBrand recruits new people, it usually chooses personality or professionalism?

J：在招人方面，我们要找的是那些对世界上发生的事情感到兴奋的人，他们能把外面的东西带进来，把那些东西变成鼓舞人心的愿景，鼓舞人心的想法。我认为我们是一家非常视觉化的公司，我们喜欢把想法具体化。

首先，当我们考虑招聘和公司发展时，这是我们做的最重要的事情之一，我们非常重视多样性。我们相信多样性能激发创造力。因此，战略、商业、设计等创新活动都来源于人的多样性。这是第一件最重要的事。

因此，也就是说，这意味着态度和能力都很重要，但无论远在何处，态度、同理心和个性可能是我们所追求的更重要的东西，因为能力我们总能通过训练和指导来提高。但当然态度和能力两者我们都需要。

我们理想中的一个公司是一个多元化的公司，有不同国籍不同类型的人，所有不同类型的人以新的、令人兴奋的方式与客户一起工作。让客户在跟我们一起工作时有一种特别兴奋的感受。

因为无论如何，为了有创造力，你需要各种不同的人在一起来实现。

J: When it comes to hiring people, we look for people who are excited by what's going on in the world, who can bring the outside inside and turn those into inspiring visions, inspiring ideas. I think we are quite a visual company and we like to make ideas tangible.

The first thing when we think about recruitments and grow the company, which is one of the most important things that we do, we really believe in diversity. We believe that diversity fuels creativity. So creative activities of strategy, commercial activities, design come from having diverse people. That's the first most important thing.

And as a consequence, that is, it means that attitude and ability are both important, but by far and away, attitudes and empathy and personality are probably the more important thing that we look for, because we can always train and coach ability. But of course we need both.

And our dream is to have a company, a really diverse company of talent, of nationality, of all different types of people working together in new, exciting ways with clients. Because anyway, in order to be creative, it takes all sorts of different people.

R：可以简单聊一下你的兴趣爱好吗？什么驱使你可以在这个行业工作那么多年？

Can you talk about your hobbies? What drive you working in this field so many years?

J：我喜欢法国，我在法国有房子，我喜欢在法国呆一段时间，学习法国文化，我喜欢在法国骑自行车。世界上最著名的比赛是环法自行车赛。环法自行车赛很快就要开始了，并且赛道经过我在法国的家。这是我的两个爱好，法国和自行车，他们走到了一起。

我来谈谈为什么我能在这个行业生存这么长时间。

关于工作，我想是因为我总是有新的挑战，总是不断地改变我的角色。因为我最初是从客户管理、从直销开始的，后来我转到了广告业，然后我一直在这个行业，只是换了不同的公司、不同的挑战。现在做品牌，遇到新的人、新的挑战，看世界上不同的地方，我想这会让你的事业激动人心。你必须用有趣的事情来充实你的头脑。我讨厌例行公事，讨厌重复同样的事情，所以要不断的改变。

和新朋友见面，重新认识一些人，像Sophie，我们已经认识两三年了。但现在，你知道，我们一起工作的时间是一种乐趣。你总是遇到新的人，这会让生活保持新鲜。

我还要努力学习汉语，努力学好这门语言。

J:I love France and I have a house in France and I like spending time in France and learning French culture and I love cycling in France. The most famous race in the world is the Tour de France, which is a cycling tour around France. It will start very soon, come past our house in France. So it's my two passions, France and cycling and they come together.

I'll talk about why I survive this industry so long time.

With regard to work, I guess it’s because I always have new challenges and always keep changing my role. Because I originally started in account management and I originally started in direct marketing, and then I moved to advertising and then I would just move companies, new challenges, and now in branding, and brand design, new people, new challenges, see the worlds. I think that makes your career exciting. You have to fill your head with interesting things or else. I hate routine. I hate the same thing over again, so keep changing.

And   meeting new people all the time, getting to meeting people again, like Sophie, we've known each other now for two or three years. But now, you know, we spend time and it's kind of fun. And you just meet new people all the time and that keeps life fresh.

And I have to try to learn Chinese, try to learn the language.